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Revo map for NEW Mk2 Leon Cupra

Discussion in 'Leon Mk2' started by warren_cox, Mar 29, 2007.

  1. warren_cox

    warren_cox Back from the dead

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    Hi all

    Before I get flamed, this post is about a product which isn't currently on a Leon, but its the same product you will be getting (give or take).

    Due to a number of reasons which I won't discuss in detail I am back on the Revo bandwagon.

    The MTM map although a quality product in its own right was....well Germanic (somewhat too polite, generally efficient but unexciting).

    I'd initially gone with MTM due to a dealer preference, so it showed goodwill. However after a month of motoring it was lacking something and so I have switched back to Revo as:

    a) The customer service is always fantastic
    b) The product is actually very good
    c) The swtichable maps and security features on the SPS are a key feature

    The good news is that this is a great map. Your 261bhp Cupra's are going to feel very lively once this is installed. m0rk managed to get the TCS light to flicker from standing start which is more than I could achieve with the MTM.

    Boost is running at about 22psi, which given the modifications to the new enlarged turbo 2.0T is no problem.

    Interestingly where the problems with this engine occur are:

    1) The fuel pump doesn't have enough capacity to feed the injectors if its mapped to aggressively (the injectors are only 15% up on the standard ones, but it looks like they have left the stock fuel pump on. Hardcore modifiers should be prepared to uprate it)
    2) The DV will start to flutter if too much boost is put through it (come on Forge, get us a replacement ready)
    3) There is another 'device/valve' with a 3 letter acronym which I can remember the name of which is supposedly giving some modifiers some issues as its filling with oil!

    So the long and the short of it is this. Trust me when I say that you can pay £1050 for a map which alledges to be a premium product. Ultimately its just code. I'm not saying you should go out and spend £199 on a piece of backstreet coding, but be aware that some tuners will a produce a map that delivers gains, whilst others will deliver maps that will deliver a real driver sensation.

    The Revo map (like the MTM map), is linear and progressive with power / feel right the way across the pedal travel. Where it improves significantly on the MTM is from 50+ (in gear acceleration). I know there are those who prefer a great big dollop of boost to push them back into the seat as soon as they depress the pedal (giving the sensation of speed). However the car is actually quicker when the map is spread across the length of the pedal as traction is maintained and all the components of the engine / management system are dealing with more rational requests.

    The MTM felt a little flat by comparison, and its key strengths were delivered only when you'd fired off from a standing start using momentum to get there. If you were at 50, then dropped to 4th of course you would accelerate, but not at the same rate as with the Revo code. I'm not saying the MTM was a bad code. It's probably deeply reliable. It just fails to deliver the outright feel of the Revo code.

    What's astonishing about this new engine is that you can still keep pushing beyond 7k and the car doesn't feel breathless or asthmatic. The hardest part is being able to change gear quick enough to keep it on the boil! (Armrest needs to be lifted out of the way. Whats an even bigger bonus is that the car retains all of its composure even with the Revo map running TIMING: 5, BOOST: 9. There are no TCS light antics, torque steer or significant front end lift.

    So later today the MTM bagde will be making way for the usual (as per the LCR and Ibiza TDi) Revo badge in silver. I've learned a very valuable lesson and its that you don't always get everything you want even when you pay top dollar.

    To those considering the remap option I can heartily recommend this Revo product. Go play! ;)
     
    #1 warren_cox, Mar 29, 2007
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2007
  2. DanGB

    DanGB Who need's a Diesel....

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    nice one mate, glad you like it! These engines are fantastic!

    2) There new valve is almost ready :D

    3) PCV Valve :)
     
  3. warren_cox

    warren_cox Back from the dead

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    :clap: Thank god, the OE one is quite limiting

    :redface: Yes, thats the one!
     
  4. leonGR

    leonGR ProDriver

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    Nice on the code... How does it compare to the stock OEM code. Is the seat-of-the-pants feel very different. Do you think that with a standing start you are now able to keep a car like the porsche boxster a good run or even the 911?

    I have been running my Cupra with the OEM code in spite of wanting REVO everyday and every time I get into my car :) ... I want to get a good sense of the car OEM and then when it is remapped with all the mods included. In the next week or two I will have all my mods started on including the REVO code.

    The info on the injectors and stock fuel pump is interesting... I wonder where the efficiency of the turbo is and how much flow it is capable so that we can have the fuel system upgraded to match the potential output of the turbo... If the turbo is almost at max efficiency then it will make no sense to change the fuel system components just for another couple percent in power output.

    Itching for mods :)

    Thanks....
     
  5. warren_cox

    warren_cox Back from the dead

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    This is a really difficult question to answer. There is a significant difference from standard code. In OE mode my car felt SIGNIFICANTLY slower than my stage 2 Leon, HOWEVER how much of that was real is hard to measure. I'll try and elaborate. The S3 is more of a magic carpet, the Leon is more of a charging bull. You knew when you were going fast in the Leon as the wheel was twiching, the engine was roaring, the traction was breaking, the TCS was flickering etc... In the S3 you kick it as hard as you can and there is wind noise.

    Hence its difficult to gauge 'how fast it feels'. Of course its quick, but 'how quick'??? Until I've run side by side with a few cars its hard to tell.

    m0rk said last night that you look down and you're going far faster than you think you are as the sensation of speed is somewhat removed. Nick from Revo thinks its probably a shade or two behind a standard RS4 4.2 V8, and quicker than a standard S4 4.2 V8.

    Interestingly, due to the fuelling issues / limit of the components the map on these cars is pretty OE up until 3000rpm. Its only after this figure that you can really progress things. As per usual Nick at Revo was insightful and demonstrated a good working knowledge of his trade (which was reassuring). Kev spent the day in Milltek's new S3 so I'm interested to hear his thoughts on the gains the pipes make.


    It sounds like the turbo could offer up more than the rest of the components. There are a few restrictive pipes that could do with an upgrade. A Neuspeed P-Flo system would be a good upgrade along with the DV, a mechanical fuel pump with higher capacity, the remap, and then the exhaust system. Nick was saying something about changing the caps on the injectors (???) , but it was too technical for me to understand so I just ended up nodding politely.
     
  6. leonGR

    leonGR ProDriver

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    Thanks for the info. It would be nice to get some turners like REVO to share some info on where the weaknesses with the engine - fuel - intake/exhaust - ect... where we can lookout for and improve upon to maximize the cars potential... Hmm... Maybe someone can put a list of mods and in what order/why that should be done on the Cupra even if such parts outside of OEM do not exist...

    I also have a 1.8t ibiza FR with all the mods but it does not have the breathing capability of the Leon II Cupra or the smoothness at higher rpms... The Cupra even at stock has a tendency to rev past 7000 without showing any strain whatsoever. I can imagine with aftermarket code it is even harder to tell :)

    Biggest problem I had so far is keeping the tires planted in first(1st) and second(2nd) gears. Also the suspension does not like bumps when you are throwing the car sideways so that would be something to look at...

    Forge where are you on that DV.......:whistle:
     
  7. heinbloed100

    heinbloed100 Full Member

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    @coxw: Nice, but don't you have an Audi S3? The Cupra has a different enginge (turbocharger, exhaust system, ...), are you sure you will get the same software? Some weeks ago I have written an email to MTM and they told me, that they are just preparing the software for the Cupra. And at this time you could already get a remap for the S3...
     
  8. Tam

    Tam Santa in disguise :)

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    Want a bet on that ;)
     
  9. heinbloed100

    heinbloed100 Full Member

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    Don't think that has to be discussed again... Has been discussed here and in german forums it is the same. The engines have different compression ratios, the S3 has a twinscroll, the Cupra does NOT have one, for example. The part numbers are also different.
     
    #9 heinbloed100, Mar 30, 2007
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2007
  10. warren_cox

    warren_cox Back from the dead

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    I'd heard the compression rations were different, but had not realised there were any other differences (other than the S3 running on different oil due to its long servicing schedules).

    The Leon's are putting out 261bhp, just like the S3, and the map thats running on my car is running perfectly.

    I know there has been some issues with respect to what Audi / Seat are prepared to divulge on this engine as I think Audi don't want their S3 customers to think you can get the same engine in a car thats much better value for money.

    Is there a tech data sheet for the Leon that marks out any of the key differences???
     
  11. heinbloed100

    heinbloed100 Full Member

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  12. warren_cox

    warren_cox Back from the dead

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    Its an interesting one, and looking at the list of different components listed you start to wonder why (from a cost / convenience perspective) why VAG would bother to run two different configurations of this similar engine.

    Output as standard for the 2 cars seems to be on a par at 261ps, so it will be interesting to see if when mapped whether they continue to turn out similar PS / Nm figures.

    Revo have been working their magic for the S3 on Millteks car, and the map that came off of that is on mine. I know they have a Cupra map, but am unaware whether there are any differences in their code. I just assumed they would be pretty much the same (in loose terms).
     
  13. bentaw

    bentaw Revo'd LCR

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    so let me get this right then you are saying that the new cupra has 261bhp standard even though SEAT quote 240bhp
     
  14. m0rk

    m0rk sarcasm comes free
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    So far.... one at Star, one in Italy & I think one in Greece (but I might have made the last one up)
     
  15. heinbloed100

    heinbloed100 Full Member

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    Perhaps they do it to differentiate the S3 from Cupra and probably because the turbocharger of the Cupra is cheaper. But I have just read some rumours about the GTi Edition 30: this shall have the same part numbers as the S3. Strange... :confused:
    I suppose we have to wait a little longer until the tuners have finished their work on the Cupra.
    MTM gets 310PS out of the S3. They have written me an email that says that they expect around 300PS from the Cupra.
    SKN (www.skntuning.de) has both cars in preparation: They say that they get from the S3 289PS and 390Nm and from Cupra 267PS and 350Nm.
    Oettinger (www.oettinger.de) gets from the S3 310PS, 400Nm, from the GTI Edition 30 305PS, 400Nm, until now nothing for the Cupra.
     
  16. warren_cox

    warren_cox Back from the dead

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    I pity the tuning houses and the amount of work they will have ahead . I know there is a belief that remaps are expensive, but these days so many extra man hours are required fine tuning each different variant of vehicle.

    What a can of worms. Manufacturers are updating car models so often that by the time a map is fine tuned and commercially available the car will be revised / replaced!
     
  17. Feel

    Feel Veedubya 'velle

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    No, he said 261ps :D

    Anyway, until you've seen one run on the same rolling road as, say, an new S3 I wouldn't bank on it making 20ps ;) more.
     
  18. Ruddmeister

    Ruddmeister Everything in Moderation

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    One at Awesome today wasn't it???
     
  19. jonathanp

    jonathanp Full Member

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    according to the on hold announcement at listers in cov the new cupra has 240psi :cartman:
     
  20. leonGR

    leonGR ProDriver

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    Here is some info from a poster on VWvortex concerning fuel cutouts.... I will look to add a higher flowing fuel pump when they become available.....

    ==================================================
    See if I understand this correctly, and see what you guys think about my info...

    Most fuel cuts are occuring in 5th and 6th gear during top-end pulls, no?

    Perhaps the occasional 4th gear cut?

    And often in cold weather when the air is denser and more fuel is required?

    Except now people are seeing it in warm weather as well, correct?

    What I am being told is...according to Keith and Chris at APR...the fuel cut issue is directly related to the fuel pump on the 2.0FSI. Nothing else.

    The stock fuel rail, lines, and injectors are more than up to the task of supporting 300bhp, and even the pump itself does OK with our heavily boosted/chipped motors until higher vehicle speeds are reached, after which time the increased acceleration/engine load required to CONTINUE accelerating the car necessitates a stronger delivery of fuel that the OE pump simply cannot provide, usually from about 4500rpm on up, and again, in 5th and 6th gears.

    That is how it has been best explained to me, and it makes sense, particulary since we know how the pump is still driven off the camshaft and engine speeds (RPM) relative to engine loads will produce such an effect.

    What I can actually vouch for is...I see all of my cuts consistently at 5k in 5th gear pulls, but I can negate them if I do not go all out WOT in top gears and use only 80% throttle.
    ===================================
     

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