Right, I have done some more mileage in a mixture of weathers and roads and feel I have given enough consideration to deliver a verdict on the Revo Stage 2 remap. Any changes will be posted here.
Firstly for those of you who have no idea of what Revo stage 2 is, its the next level of tuning beyond the standard Revo (which is a remap which can be loaded onto any stock LCR with no mods). The stage 2 map was developed for cars which have 3 specific modifications:
1) 2.5" or 3" sports exhaust system (turbo back)
2) Induction / freeflow panel or cone air filter / uprated air intake
3) 4 bar FPR
I have heard questions like:
a) Do I need the 4 bar FPR?
Yes you do. The LCR comes with a 3 bar FPR. The aggressive Stg 2 map makes use of the increased air flow rates from the uprated air filter system, and the 4 bar FPR ensures enough fuel gets in to the mix to balance this.
b) Can I remap to stage 2 without all of the above?
I suppose you could, but why bother? Revo didn't spend hours an lots of money on R&D for this product for us to fudge it on to our cars as we saw fit. The literature says you will ONLY benefit from the use of the 3 pre-requisites listed above to realise the benefits and they are REQUIRED. Its not money in their pockets so they're not saying it for fun. Just remember you are making a decision to push the engine a fair way beyond the limits stated by the manufacturers recommendations. If you're going to do it spend the money and do it properly, don't cut corners and end up causing more moneys worth of damage to your engine. The cheapest option of doing it would be to buy a panel filter and modify the air box (removes the expense of induction kit), then buy a performance exhaust and go cat bypass (this will affect your MoT so be prepared to put it back in when required). 4 bar FPRs aren't expensive. The Revo Stage 2 map is only £50 (IF YOU HAVE ALREADY PURCHASED REVO STAGE 1 @ RRP), if not its nearly £640 + your 3 mods.
The equipment I chose to use are as follows:
Revo Stage 1 (+ Stage 2 upgrade) - Approx £636 inc VAT
Milltek exhaust with 100 cell race catalyst - Approx £1100 inc VAT
Forge DV 007P - Approx £80 inc VAT
Dynatwist induction kit (with air intake hose located in nearside wing above intercooler) - Approx £180 inc VAT
Samco TIP - About £100 inc VAT
All in all thats about £2100 without the labour. If you go here you will get an SCN discount on all except Revo.
On the recommendation of forum members I also elected to go for the EIP dogbone mount and shortshift kit (both about £100 each), as for a low cost I would be able to realise more performance from the mods made above. I also got an Autometer boost gauge from cordobabrendy and a nomad pillar but its not yet fully installed so I can't tell you what boost its running until next week.
Revo claims a benefit of 10-15% greater yield over the standard tuning software. When you are pushing the limits of the modern FWD car it is difficult to say whether it feels like that or not. I assume the average Revo car would be 260-270 bhp so stage 2 should theoretically see 276 to a maximum of 295(!) bhp. From the initial drives of 4 people we guestimate it feels about 270ish bhp but until it sits on a rolling road its pure speculation.
The SPS3 can be used to allow a broader range of settings than on std Stage 1 but as yet I haven't tapped into this so can't elaborate.
As said in my previous post when applying a healthy logarithmic dose of the throttle pedal the urge from the engine is noticeably different. Whereas pre Stage 2, I should be changing gear at 5,100rpm I can now hold longer to about 5,500rpm. This means you can get closer to hitting 60mph before going for 3rd gear without suffering the tail off in power you'd expect by holding 2nd gear for too long in stock mode.
Where you really do feel the benefit is further round the speedo. Its no great secret that the turbo is the limiting factor on the LCR, but with the stage 2 combination the amount of power you can tap into from 70/80/90 mph is unbelievable. I got a mate to time the car with 2 passengers from 70mph to 100mph this morning and it was approx 5 seconds in 5th gear. I think thats fairly impressive. Keep your foot down and it pulls cleanly to just over 120 at which point you start to feel the urgency drop off and the needle begins to creep a bit. (I hasten to add all this was tested on a private road).
I ought to consider the practical aspects of this. Whats it gonna cost me after I've parted with some serious cash. The answer: A bit more, but not a lot. I do a circuit that I have created as a fun Saturday morning drive. If I enjoy it I tend to get around 24mpg. Today I got 21.6mpg. Unsurprisingly you will eat more fuel when you're enjoying the drive. More in = more out etc... HOWEVER, on the dopey run up to Oxford and back to get rid of that infernal Alpine head unit I hate so much the car posted 31.3mpg on a 58 mile round trip. It was a bit of a stroll to see whether overall economy had gone for a Burton. Drive it like your Gran and its fine. The only thing I picked up on was if I accelerated very gently there was the slightest blip of hesitation between 2900 and 3100 rpm but this was remedied by standing on the 'Go' pedal a bit more aggressively.
In gear acceleration in astonishing (0-60 is very close to 6 seconds), and this is where I have to beg you to buy the dog bone mount. When I had stage 1 Revo and about 255bhp the ESP light made sure I knew it was there. Now I have another 10% I barely see it. The dogbone mount has got the front end well under control. As you are running more boost, power, etc... the engine is going to move further under intense acceleration. You are running a mount build to handle 225 bhp. You WILL NOT make the most of the power without this mod. I believe this to be the best LCR mod to date. Its so simple you would overlook it, but DONT. Power goes down consistently on the straight and the corners, and because the engines not rocking and rolling the car seems to be far more stable under braking and cornering. Until you've tested it you wont believe it - I certainly didn't. The shortshift keeps you shifting fluently, and even though its restricted I haven't crunched a gear yet (but thats because the engines now sat still).
Finally a quick word on the Milltek. Beautifully built and subtle as you like. Probably too quiet for some but as I'm a music lover it suits me and my neighbourhood fine. Twinned with the dynatwist you get just enough rasp and roar to feel purposeful without being all show and no go. Bloody expensive but when you see it side by side with the SEATSport tuned effort you see where its value sits. Put it on the car and it makes sense.
So, I'm nearly £2.5k out of pocket. The ultimate question is do I recommend it. The answer is YES. A fairly firm yes at that. A bit expensive maybe, but with Westec offering forum members the SCN discount and a great service it takes the sting out of the tail. I've been driving modified cars for 10 years. The Leon although quick has always felt deceptively slow to me considering its bhp / torque claims. It now actually feels fast which is all I have wanted.
I have achieved this for under £20k (including the purchase of the new car £17.1k). Thats still less than a GTi or Megane Sport. Its entirely drivable in the wet or the dry, still as economical as I could wish for, and its now powerful but planted and not sketchy as feck which I thought it may be.
I know there have been a couple of threads of mixed opinion about this product but I had no problems at all (touch wood!). So far, its been fine, but the car is new and seems to be working (for now). It comes back to the earlier point of doing it right - I think this upgrade could be more sensitive to issues, you're pushing the boundary further. If I get any long term issues you know where they will be!! I'll do an update after a few months. Cheers to RevoKev again for his support and encouragement on this project, his last words to me were 'Go on, you'll love it' and thankfully he was right!
Finally a big big thankyou to Grant and Jock at Westec. If you haven't encountered them yet get into the supplier section and check out there stuff. If you live on these forums you know I'm not alone in singing their praises of late. I've used a well known tuning house for 7 years, and deciding to make a switch was a leap of faith. Jock is a VAG genius with years of experience in the field, and Grant seems capable of extracting the best from the Revo software settings and both their perseverence to get it right is so reassuring. I travel 86 miles each way and pay £4.80 to get over that bloody bridge, but they've go a PS2 in the waiting room and are good for a chat so its well worth it. I can't recommend them enough.
I'll leave it there for today, and clear off and fit my new head unit. Thank god for Watchdog threats. Hmmmm Alpine flip screen without that bloody glide bar........
Firstly for those of you who have no idea of what Revo stage 2 is, its the next level of tuning beyond the standard Revo (which is a remap which can be loaded onto any stock LCR with no mods). The stage 2 map was developed for cars which have 3 specific modifications:
1) 2.5" or 3" sports exhaust system (turbo back)
2) Induction / freeflow panel or cone air filter / uprated air intake
3) 4 bar FPR
I have heard questions like:
a) Do I need the 4 bar FPR?
Yes you do. The LCR comes with a 3 bar FPR. The aggressive Stg 2 map makes use of the increased air flow rates from the uprated air filter system, and the 4 bar FPR ensures enough fuel gets in to the mix to balance this.
b) Can I remap to stage 2 without all of the above?
I suppose you could, but why bother? Revo didn't spend hours an lots of money on R&D for this product for us to fudge it on to our cars as we saw fit. The literature says you will ONLY benefit from the use of the 3 pre-requisites listed above to realise the benefits and they are REQUIRED. Its not money in their pockets so they're not saying it for fun. Just remember you are making a decision to push the engine a fair way beyond the limits stated by the manufacturers recommendations. If you're going to do it spend the money and do it properly, don't cut corners and end up causing more moneys worth of damage to your engine. The cheapest option of doing it would be to buy a panel filter and modify the air box (removes the expense of induction kit), then buy a performance exhaust and go cat bypass (this will affect your MoT so be prepared to put it back in when required). 4 bar FPRs aren't expensive. The Revo Stage 2 map is only £50 (IF YOU HAVE ALREADY PURCHASED REVO STAGE 1 @ RRP), if not its nearly £640 + your 3 mods.
The equipment I chose to use are as follows:
Revo Stage 1 (+ Stage 2 upgrade) - Approx £636 inc VAT
Milltek exhaust with 100 cell race catalyst - Approx £1100 inc VAT
Forge DV 007P - Approx £80 inc VAT
Dynatwist induction kit (with air intake hose located in nearside wing above intercooler) - Approx £180 inc VAT
Samco TIP - About £100 inc VAT
All in all thats about £2100 without the labour. If you go here you will get an SCN discount on all except Revo.
On the recommendation of forum members I also elected to go for the EIP dogbone mount and shortshift kit (both about £100 each), as for a low cost I would be able to realise more performance from the mods made above. I also got an Autometer boost gauge from cordobabrendy and a nomad pillar but its not yet fully installed so I can't tell you what boost its running until next week.
Revo claims a benefit of 10-15% greater yield over the standard tuning software. When you are pushing the limits of the modern FWD car it is difficult to say whether it feels like that or not. I assume the average Revo car would be 260-270 bhp so stage 2 should theoretically see 276 to a maximum of 295(!) bhp. From the initial drives of 4 people we guestimate it feels about 270ish bhp but until it sits on a rolling road its pure speculation.
The SPS3 can be used to allow a broader range of settings than on std Stage 1 but as yet I haven't tapped into this so can't elaborate.
As said in my previous post when applying a healthy logarithmic dose of the throttle pedal the urge from the engine is noticeably different. Whereas pre Stage 2, I should be changing gear at 5,100rpm I can now hold longer to about 5,500rpm. This means you can get closer to hitting 60mph before going for 3rd gear without suffering the tail off in power you'd expect by holding 2nd gear for too long in stock mode.
Where you really do feel the benefit is further round the speedo. Its no great secret that the turbo is the limiting factor on the LCR, but with the stage 2 combination the amount of power you can tap into from 70/80/90 mph is unbelievable. I got a mate to time the car with 2 passengers from 70mph to 100mph this morning and it was approx 5 seconds in 5th gear. I think thats fairly impressive. Keep your foot down and it pulls cleanly to just over 120 at which point you start to feel the urgency drop off and the needle begins to creep a bit. (I hasten to add all this was tested on a private road).
I ought to consider the practical aspects of this. Whats it gonna cost me after I've parted with some serious cash. The answer: A bit more, but not a lot. I do a circuit that I have created as a fun Saturday morning drive. If I enjoy it I tend to get around 24mpg. Today I got 21.6mpg. Unsurprisingly you will eat more fuel when you're enjoying the drive. More in = more out etc... HOWEVER, on the dopey run up to Oxford and back to get rid of that infernal Alpine head unit I hate so much the car posted 31.3mpg on a 58 mile round trip. It was a bit of a stroll to see whether overall economy had gone for a Burton. Drive it like your Gran and its fine. The only thing I picked up on was if I accelerated very gently there was the slightest blip of hesitation between 2900 and 3100 rpm but this was remedied by standing on the 'Go' pedal a bit more aggressively.
In gear acceleration in astonishing (0-60 is very close to 6 seconds), and this is where I have to beg you to buy the dog bone mount. When I had stage 1 Revo and about 255bhp the ESP light made sure I knew it was there. Now I have another 10% I barely see it. The dogbone mount has got the front end well under control. As you are running more boost, power, etc... the engine is going to move further under intense acceleration. You are running a mount build to handle 225 bhp. You WILL NOT make the most of the power without this mod. I believe this to be the best LCR mod to date. Its so simple you would overlook it, but DONT. Power goes down consistently on the straight and the corners, and because the engines not rocking and rolling the car seems to be far more stable under braking and cornering. Until you've tested it you wont believe it - I certainly didn't. The shortshift keeps you shifting fluently, and even though its restricted I haven't crunched a gear yet (but thats because the engines now sat still).
Finally a quick word on the Milltek. Beautifully built and subtle as you like. Probably too quiet for some but as I'm a music lover it suits me and my neighbourhood fine. Twinned with the dynatwist you get just enough rasp and roar to feel purposeful without being all show and no go. Bloody expensive but when you see it side by side with the SEATSport tuned effort you see where its value sits. Put it on the car and it makes sense.
So, I'm nearly £2.5k out of pocket. The ultimate question is do I recommend it. The answer is YES. A fairly firm yes at that. A bit expensive maybe, but with Westec offering forum members the SCN discount and a great service it takes the sting out of the tail. I've been driving modified cars for 10 years. The Leon although quick has always felt deceptively slow to me considering its bhp / torque claims. It now actually feels fast which is all I have wanted.
I have achieved this for under £20k (including the purchase of the new car £17.1k). Thats still less than a GTi or Megane Sport. Its entirely drivable in the wet or the dry, still as economical as I could wish for, and its now powerful but planted and not sketchy as feck which I thought it may be.
I know there have been a couple of threads of mixed opinion about this product but I had no problems at all (touch wood!). So far, its been fine, but the car is new and seems to be working (for now). It comes back to the earlier point of doing it right - I think this upgrade could be more sensitive to issues, you're pushing the boundary further. If I get any long term issues you know where they will be!! I'll do an update after a few months. Cheers to RevoKev again for his support and encouragement on this project, his last words to me were 'Go on, you'll love it' and thankfully he was right!
Finally a big big thankyou to Grant and Jock at Westec. If you haven't encountered them yet get into the supplier section and check out there stuff. If you live on these forums you know I'm not alone in singing their praises of late. I've used a well known tuning house for 7 years, and deciding to make a switch was a leap of faith. Jock is a VAG genius with years of experience in the field, and Grant seems capable of extracting the best from the Revo software settings and both their perseverence to get it right is so reassuring. I travel 86 miles each way and pay £4.80 to get over that bloody bridge, but they've go a PS2 in the waiting room and are good for a chat so its well worth it. I can't recommend them enough.
I'll leave it there for today, and clear off and fit my new head unit. Thank god for Watchdog threats. Hmmmm Alpine flip screen without that bloody glide bar........
)
)
, what is 4 bar FPR ???
