Veggie oil?

[lewism3]

Basic supply and demand kicks in and the price increases.

I was expecting this to happen, but an increase in 48% seems ridiculous. Oh well there will be no custom from me anymore. Just as well I have over 90 litres stored in my gargage.

Stew:

I found Aldi and Lidls more expensive than Tescos, Can I borrow your Costco card?????!!!!

Must admit, my old Mk2 doesn't run particularly well on veg oil so I do look forward to having a little more zest in the old girl. Shame though, I was enjoying cheaper motoring.

 

[Fisher]

Pura veg oil is 56p/litre

Pura Veg oil is 56p a litre from Tesco, Only available in 1 litre bottles and no idea why its half the price of elsewhere.

Otherwise go wholesale for sure

You can order 99litres of Pura via tesco.com but do you want to open all those bottles?

 

[lewism3]

Maybe when your local Tescos has run out of stock you will see the price rise.

Can't see Pura on Tesco.com

 

[cheshire cat]

Maybe when your local Tescos has run out of stock you will see the price rise.

Can't see Pura on Tesco.com

too true gone altogether from Sainsbury's

 

[Tuscan_No27]

I have a Leon FR (PD 150bhp engine) and I've read many people advising against using 100% biodiesel but is this just pessimism ? I don't recall seeing any facts as to why you cannot. Think a call to Seat on Monday morning is in order.

I'm talking about proper biodiesel here i.e. rapeseed methyl-ester (RME) not raw veg oil.... they are totally different physically and chemically. There's little difference in viscosity between dino-diesel and biodiesel. Proper biodiesel has a molecule size 1/3 of that of veg oil so it produces a finer droplet size for better and more complete combustion and the Cetane number is actually better than that for dino-diesel. This is where raw veg oil falls down - its larger drops may not burn as clean and build up the the pistons/rings/injectors.

I have a reliable source of good quality waste rapeseed oil so it would be a shame not to convert it to good quality bio. So has anyone got any facts on why PD engines should use bio - my handbook says its fine and there's no warning label on the filler cap.

Cheers !
Richard

 

[TornadoRed]

I'm talking about proper biodiesel here i.e. rapeseed methyl-ester (RME) not raw veg oil.... they are totally different physically and chemically. ...
I have a reliable source of good quality waste rapeseed oil so it would be a shame not to convert it to good quality bio.

The key here is "good quality bio" -- not WVO.

For those of you using either biodiesel or WVO -- change your engine oil frequently. A small amount of fuel dilution in the engine oil is not harmful -- but fuel dilution with biodiesel or any biofuel can destroy an engine in not much time at all. Instead of every 10k miles, for example, plan on changing the oil every 3k or 5k miles.

 

[Tuscan_No27]

The key here is "good quality bio" -- not WVO.

For those of you using either biodiesel or WVO -- change your engine oil frequently. A small amount of fuel dilution in the engine oil is not harmful -- but fuel dilution with biodiesel or any biofuel can destroy an engine in not much time at all. Instead of every 10k miles, for example, plan on changing the oil every 3k or 5k miles.

Definitely.

When I say good quality I'm talking about very accurate titration tests of the waste oil to start with to determine the correct quantities of methanol & catalyst, then mist water washing the bio after conversion followed by drying and then filtering to 5 microns.

 

[TornadoRed]

Definitely.

When I say good quality I'm talking about very accurate titration tests of the waste oil to start with to determine the correct quantities of methanol & catalyst, then mist water washing the bio after conversion followed by drying and then filtering to 5 microns.

Good, you sound like you are being very careful.

I reiterate though -- shorten those oil change intervals with any kind of biofuel.

 

[Dave H]

see
http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=2821

Is this correct/
other information i have found which i read with much interest:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html

Apart from forum members (other forums too) saying ok to add SVO to the diesel, I'm not sure if my Leon TDI 2001 (Yreg) (110bhp) will cope. I need to identify what my engine is/ is it a common rail engine?

TDI = complicated science? should we ought to throw SVO at it?

Also seen posts that people have used 95% SVO or WVO + 5% petrol + 0.01% some charger in a diesel engine (although unsure what diesel engine)

 

[TornadoRed]

see
http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=2821

Is this correct?

This is absolutely correct, and is an excellent overview of why SVO and WVO should not be used in direct-injection engines.

You will notice that the author, High Compression II, (aka Alastair Bowlie-Evans) identifies himself as a Veggy Veteran and has 3655 posts. He also owns or has owned four Mercedes-Benz cars with indirect-injection diesel engines.

Thank you for that link.

 

[sssstew]

see
http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=2821

Is this correct/
other information i have found which i read with much interest:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html

Apart from forum members (other forums too) saying ok to add SVO to the diesel, I'm not sure if my Leon TDI 2001 (Yreg) (110bhp) will cope. I need to identify what my engine is/ is it a common rail engine?

TDI = complicated science? should we ought to throw SVO at it?

Also seen posts that people have used 95% SVO or WVO + 5% petrol + 0.01% some charger in a diesel engine (although unsure what diesel engine)

Your 110 isnt common rail, its a high pressure rotary injection system, so of the previous generation really. It will be fine with up to a 50/50 mix of SVO in, i have done in mine.

 

[TornadoRed]

Your 110 isnt common rail, its a high pressure rotary injection system, so of the previous generation really. It will be fine with up to a 50/50 mix of SVO in, i have done in mine.

Not true. Vegetable oil is more viscous than diesel, and running a 50/50 blend would put a lot more stress on the injection pump.

On the other hand, it might not be as harmful to the engine internals, compared to the PD engines. Still, if someone decided to use it on a regular basis, he should plan on more-frequent oil changes.

 

[sssstew]

What part isnt true?

 

[TornadoRed]

What part isnt true?

You told Dave H, "It will be fine with up to a 50/50 mix of SVO."

You cannot guarantee that. Just because your engine/turbo/injection system is still okay, does not mean that SVO is suitable for TDIs. SVO is not biodiesel, it is not an approved fuel, it is not good for direct-injection engines and not really good for indirect -injection engines in a single-tank application.

 

[sssstew]

it will be fine though, chuck a 50/50 mix in the tank right now and you can drive as normal. I know i cant guarantee that, i never said i could, as with everything people post on public forums its purely from the posters experience/viewpoint. But specifically the quote that "it will be fine with up to a 50/50 mix of SVO" is not untrue.

Agreed i havent detailed any potential longer term problems but none of these have been 100% confirmed as a cause of putting in SVO. "From my experience" a 50/50 mix worked fine with no immediate ill-effects. Obviously i cant say what my engine will be like in 100,000 miles after doing this regularly but who can, very few. At the moment putting SVO into the tank is a new thing which only a small amount of people do so no formal research has been done on it. I know there is someone else who has posted up that he has used SVO in his TDIs for years with no ill-effects, again though this is just personal experience.

 

[TornadoRed]

Have you ever looked at an injector nozzle through a microscope? I haven't -- but I can't see the holes with my naked eye, so if I wanted to see them I'd have to use a microscope or at least a powerful magnifying glass.

If one or more of those holes becomes clogged, the misdirected stream of fuel may not ignite properly and harmlessly in the middle of the combustion chamber. The fuel may strike the surface of the piston head, which will start to melt. When this happens, your engine has not much longer to live.

Have you inspected your piston rings? If the coking process occurs (described in the article linked above), then compression is lost. But more seriously, unburned fuel can contaminate the engine oil.

Have you had your engine oil analyzed for contamination? A 0.5% or even 1.0% contamination with regular #2 diesel is not good but will probably not harm anything. The same level of contamination with vegetable oil can produce accelerated bearing wear. Remember that your turbo is also lubricated by this oil, and that it spins at over 100,000 RPM.

Have you ever looked at any photos of TDI engines after they've been torn down, the ones that have been run on WVO or SVO? Very ugly. And there is nothing that can be done except to replace the engine, there is no way to remove all that crap from the smaller oil channels.

Your anecdotal "evidence" is irrelevant. The chemical properties of vegetable oil are known, the physical characteristics of direct-injection engines are known. Vegetable oil is not a fuel -- it can be turned into fuel, but it is not fuel. Pour some into a hot skillet, 450-500° Fahrenheit, and see what happens. Leave it for awhile and see what is left after it burns off. Then imagine the results at 1000° or 1200° F. Do you really want that stuff coating the insides of your engine? Do you think your engine will run just fine with that stuff inside there?

 

[sssstew]

Red we know your quite anti SVO as you have mentioned on other threads. I was merely commenting that what i said was not untrue.

 

[willives]

Veggie oil

A mate of mine has a Mk4 Golf TDI, which I'm 99% sure is the same engine, and he's been running it on a 40-50% mix for the last 3 years.

He just said that every 6 months or so he runs it on a tank of 100% diesel with an additive.

Its done around 25,000 miles on the mix so far, with no problems. He just changes the fuel filter a bit more regularly.

Saves approx £17 per fill-up

 

[TornadoRed]

Red we know your quite anti SVO as you have mentioned on other threads. I was merely commenting that what i said was not untrue.

"It is fine..." or "It will be fine..." -- that's the part I felt was untrue. Fine so far with your car, as far as you know. (Have you done a used-oil analysis?)

But there have been too many cases where TDIs run on SVO or WVO have needed replacement engines. In case you don't know, they are pretty expensive -- more than you can possibly save by running SVO or WVO.

Remember this link from Dave? http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=2821

There is nothing in that link that says VO is okay in VE engines, or PD engines, or CR engines. Basically the author says VO is okay in indirect-injection engines -- and nobody is producing new IDI engines.

Am I anti-VO? Yes, absolutely. I don't really care if a fully-informed person uses it. I just don't like to see newbies only hearing one side of the story -- because the bad things that can happen are not limited to a few isolated cases. Eventually every TDI or other DI engine will suffer from the consequences of veggie oil use.

 

[Fishy]

There was a picture in the Mail today showing a new Leon and a woman filling it up, and talking about using veggie oil.....

This could be bad news for some stupid owners who try it in the PD engines.

Fish