Water injection or Intercooler Spray?

[Shock_Xe]

Actually bill i have a floor standing belt sander, a small grinder, large grinder, bench grinder and a few welders of various kinds!! my old man's a coded welder and fitter so i've got enough tools!!


Plus i like doing these sort of things myself so i can see properly how it works/goes together etc.

sounds like you would have very little problems. Being realistic If you could fit a large fmic there without hassle 2 things would of happened

1) Seat would of Done it
or
2) There would be lots of kits available

as this is not the case its obvious mods need to be done but we have done extensive research to keep it to a minimum

Dimsport in Barcelona managed to fit a core to their race ibiza with no probs and they didnt even use the instructions

 

[Saul]

Actually bill i have a floor standing belt sander, a small grinder, large grinder, bench grinder and a few welders of various kinds!! my old man's a coded welder and fitter so i've got enough tools!!


Plus i like doing these sort of things myself so i can see properly how it works/goes together etc.

wheres your old man work mate?

 

[cuprabaz]

ABB Vetco Gray at the moment, why?

 

[Saul]

just wondered, i supply ABB but not that one

 

[ibizacupra]

ABB Vetco Gray at the moment, why?

aha. ABB eh..
they for sale now are'nt they.

 

[ibizacupra]

just wondered, i supply ABB but not that one

crap payers m8?

45 days on 30 days nett?

 

[Saul]

it was abb in telford we dealt with, classic 1000 filter bodies as they were called.

45 days on 30 days nett in this industry is classed as good!

 

[ibizacupra]

it was abb in telford we dealt with, classic 1000 filter bodies as they were called.

45 days on 30 days nett in this industry is classed as good!

LOL... 90 day terms used to be....
improved until end of qtrs/months to "adjust" cashflow figures..

 

[BenS1]

It seems as though most people on this thread seems to be thinking that the purpose of WI is to reduce intake temperatures, but in reality thats a secondary, kinda bonus feature... its main purpose is to prevent detonation (And not just by reducing intake temperatures).

Even if WI doesn't noticably reduce your intake temps, it may well be preventing detonation and allowing you to run more advance.

Ben

 

[ibizacupra]

It seems as though most people on this thread seems to be thinking that the purpose of WI is to reduce intake temperatures, but in reality thats a secondary, kinda bonus feature... its main purpose is to prevent detonation (And not just by reducing intake temperatures).

Even if WI doesn't noticably reduce your intake temps, it may well be preventing detonation and allowing you to run more advance.

Ben

reduce det by reduced intake temps tho ben...
explains why mine no longer is adding anything (for the same mapping settings) with larger FMIC

There are some guys on the aquamist forum adding water/meth/nitro mix to their cars.... and claiming 50bhp gains...?

 

[BenS1]

reduce det by reduced intake temps tho ben...
explains why mine no longer is adding anything (for the same mapping settings) with larger FMIC

There are some guys on the aquamist forum adding water/meth/nitro mix to their cars.... and claiming 50bhp gains...?

Thats exactly it though Bill, thats not how it reduces detonation (Yes that does have a small effect). In fact, even if you injected water at a temperature HIGHER that the compressed air temperature it would still help prevent detonation. eg. if your intake air temp is say 30C and you inject water at say 50C then it would still help stop detonation.

This is because the water only absorbs a tiny bit of the heat from the intake charge (5-10C?), the water does most of its work in the combustion chamber... as it turns to steam it can absorb 100's of debgrees C of heat!

Also, when you consider Methanol, this effectively increases the octane rating of the fuel and so allows you to run more advance.

So, in summary, you can't judge the effectiveness of WI at all by measuring intake temperatures. You need to compare ignition timings and power outputs.

Also, remmeber that many WI cars inject the water at the intake manifold. This is because they are not interested in using the water to reduce intake temps as the effect of that is negligable compared to the detonation control effects.

I'm sure there is some info about this on the Aquamist site. Atleast, i read about it somewhere so it was probably on there.

Ben

 

[ibizacupra]

Thats exactly it though Bill, thats not how it reduces detonation (Yes that does have a small effect). In fact, even if you injected water at a temperature HIGHER that the compressed air temperature it would still help prevent detonation. eg. if your intake air temp is say 30C and you inject water at say 50C then it would still help stop detonation.

This is because the water only absorbs a tiny bit of the heat from the intake charge (5-10C?), the water does most of its work in the combustion chamber... as it turns to steam it can absorb 100's of debgrees C of heat!

Also, when you consider Methanol, this effectively increases the octane rating of the fuel and so allows you to run more advance.

So, in summary, you can't judge the effectiveness of WI at all by measuring intake temperatures. You need to compare ignition timings and power outputs.

Also, remmeber that many WI cars inject the water at the intake manifold. This is because they are not interested in using the water to reduce intake temps as the effect of that is negligable compared to the detonation control effects.

I'm sure there is some info about this on the Aquamist site. Atleast, i read about it somewhere so it was probably on there.

Ben

Methanol injected is'nt being a fuel, not at 40% mix, but does drop the latent heat of evaporation way down... better cooling.

On the Dyno, 2 weeks ago, mine had no extra power from aquamist on or off, but I am running a more efficient, higher flowing core than before with induction temps not passing 30'C. Previously it would go higher into the mid to high 40's and then the aquamist did seem to add something to the top end. Not any more.
My mappings not anywhere optimised for the engines current spec or boost so remapped it may well try and make more power using w/i. Run out of fueling also..

There's a good forum off the aquamist site which is worth a read. Some interesting things being tried.

Too much w/i and instead of water vapour you would get water droplets which occupy space where you would rather a fuel air mix tho... costing you performance.

Its a complex old scenario. I can only speak for what I have found (and shared) information wise.

 

[ibizacupra]

So, in summary, you can't judge the effectiveness of WI at all by measuring intake temperatures. You need to compare ignition timings and power outputs.
Ben

I did.. and it added no power this time. On the dyno.
Induction temps were lower this time than before from larger FMIC.

QED for me.. thats a differentiator? (if not the differentiator?)

 

[cuprabaz]

Anybody fancying going halves on some Nitrobooster from the US?? could be interesting!

 

[YerMother]

Washer bottle is the ideal container, no need to extra one, large 6.6ltr capacity as std on mk3 cupra, and constant maintenance is no more than refilling it just as you have to refill the washer fluid for windscreens anyhow..

The LCR has a 3.5L washer bottle would you be able to fit a larger bottle?

There must be a reason why the LCR has such a small washer bottle! Any ideas

Sie

 

[ibizacupra]

The LCR has a 3.5L washer bottle would you be able to fit a larger bottle?

There must be a reason why the LCR has such a small washer bottle! Any ideas

Sie

Space is'nt it? It has a large air charge pipe running down that side where the larger washer bottle sits (compared to an ibiza)
Running a pipe the same route as an LCR on my FMIC the washer bottle had to be swapped for a diddy one for the same reason.

 

[YerMother]

Is a 3.5l bottle bigger enough for aqaumist?, they recommend 5-10% capacity of the fuel tank so i guess so

 

[ibizacupra]

mines only diddy (washer bottle! )
just keep an eye on it or fit the system which has waterflow alarm and level sensor if in doubt.

Not that many cc's delivered on 0.5mm nozzle and its only on when on boost, which when you think of it is'nt as much as you would think.

 

[BenS1]

3.5litre will last ages.

Mine is 6.6 litre and lasts forever. Weeks and weeks.

Ben

 

[ibizacupra]

I ran my Aquamist on track for the first time on Friday @ Anglesey... 60/40 mix water/meth

Worked a treat... tell tale boost climb when things were getting hot was gone. Max boost stayed pegged same level whole session (20mins) all day. 2 sessions used a bottle up which was fine by me. Small bottle after all.
Std bottle would probably have lasted me all day.
No more power on mine but it remained very very consistent.